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    Eve Online

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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:32 pm

    I'm currently working on training my primary character up to fly a battleship, it's hard work and I've almost got the basic skills to fly it, just short 40 million to buy it.
    But theres something to be said for working hard and achiving something, one of my first such moments in the game was when after admittly begging for a handfull of rare materials, I was able to build my own battlecruiser. It took me several weeks to get most of the materials but whenever I use her, I have a sense of deep satisifaction.
    ***
    It was true in WoW too, I still proudly remember answering someons question of where did I get my armour, which at the time was full ornate mithral plate with the line "I made it". I used to make a pretty penny crafting and selling armour for fellow warriors and paladins as well as enchanters.
    (This was just before the gold sellers/booster babys got out of control)
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:25 pm

    It is rather cool that the game allows you to build everything that you could even need. Save of course for the rare items. Frigates take about 15 minuets to pop into the oven and be ready to go. But some ships take as long as 3 months (thats real life time) to build. And that is not counting getting all the prerequsitie conditions to build the cursed thing. The game is really in depth and full of suprises that eve I don't know about. I still utter the phrase, "you can do that?" more often then i would like to admit.

    Good luck on getting the battleship. Let me know if I can help.
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    Sideromelane

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Sideromelane on Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:21 pm

    The battleship skill is good to have, just make sure you have the support skills to go with it! No sense having a 100mill worth of hull, and 10k of fittings that die within seconds of entering a fight!

    I'm training for Command Ships myself right now.
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:09 pm

    Hey Sideromelane, poke me some time in eve and I can get you into some Fur channels if you would like. Just PM me.

    Yes support skills are key. But the only thing more important then support skills are learning skills. It lets you get the highly prized Skill Points faster.
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    Sideromelane

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Sideromelane on Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:26 pm

    I might do. I dont tend to contact people i dont know well though.

    And while there *is* a Sideromelane ingame, its no longer my account. Would be a great way to confuse some random dude though if you want to contact that nick!

    Learning skills happen in the first couple months. I havn't looked at them in over a year. All fours and fives though. And a set of plus4's in my main clone.

    Still, looking at over a month to go for the prereqs for Command Ships.
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:05 pm

    Yah I can fly a lot. Ben concentraiting on one race for the characters entire exsistance.

    Sorry for the misspelling, i have a massive migrane.
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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:29 am

    I tend to run missions with my chat box closed, but not always so if you want to chat and I don't respond that's why, flick me a evemail or start a private convo if you really need to talk.
    Hope your feeling better Keyou-bi !

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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:55 pm

    No worries man. I'm usually in the middle of being attacked, attacking, or waiting to be one of the two. So I'm not usually looking at anything but the intelligence channels and flying around going "AAHHHHHH KILL KILL KILL!"
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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:33 am

    Speaking of munitions etc - if you every need some, just give me a mail (Unless you can make em yourself of course)
    I don't sell munitions but I'd be happy to make some for my friends for a small fee
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:24 pm

    I fly Amarr. So I'm not usually in the position to be needing more ammo. Unless my ship explodes.
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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:47 am

    I do equipment & drones too. Besides some Amarr vessels use missiles :p
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:14 am

    This is true. I'm slowly learning that shoving mass at people can incure some damage. Though my ability to point flashlights is much better. As for drones, i really need T2 drones more then anything.
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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:36 am

    I only use t1 drones, even in my cruisers a pair of drones can rip a frigate to pieces.
    The trick is to wait till all the enemies are targeting you before launching or you'll lose the drones.
    With the right skills (Drone Interfacing for one) drones become a viable offensive weapon and like lasers they don't need ammo.
    Granted vs. players their worth drops slightly as in low sec, a smartbomb will deal with aggressive drones quickly.
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:03 am

    PvP is more complex in low sec. But to be honest PvP is complex period. As in the things you have to learn how to do. Its not hard but just... i dunno. Im really bad with words all of the sudden.
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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:30 pm

    Just wanted to say Woohoo I've got my Rokh, just need a fornight or so to fly the thing Smile
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    Sideromelane

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Sideromelane on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:36 pm

    Blackwolf wrote:Just wanted to say Woohoo I've got my Rokh, just need a fornight or so to fly the thing Smile

    Woah, you went for a Rokh? Brave choice, I would have gone for the Raven in your shoes, if only because I find it a far more versatile beast. (Missiles over Rails, ALWAYS).

    Fits a similar tank too, which means those rails (or blasters) are going to be demoloshing your capacator!

    Good luck with it, but if it's missions, you are going to have some trouble I fear.
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    Teasealot

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Teasealot on Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:53 pm

    Aren\'t you forgetting the wonderful item called DEFENDER missiles, and what use are missiles against someone whose skills have their railguns outdistance any missile?

    And isn\'t his choice what weapons he uses? What ship he uses? Are you paying his £14.99 a month? I use a Drake so I\'m good with missiles, but I\'m still training my railgun skills in case I need them for a ship that\'s mainly a gun platform. And there are missions out there that a missile boat is useless for. I know, I\'ve done some of them.


    Last edited by Teasealot on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Sideromelane

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Sideromelane on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:00 pm

    Unless you can knock down EVERY cruise coming at you from 230k, at 7x cruise missiles every 7.5 seconds, (Skills, and a sensor booster with range script in place of my *usual* target painter), then you ARE going to take damage. And if you are in a rokh, I know to tank for Kin/Therm. *I* can cycle through missile types until I hit your defence hole.

    Defenders are okay, but are not able to stop a solid blob of 7 cruise missiles, you may at best knock off 30% or 40% damage, but then the next blob is arriving, and your defenders are still cycling. And i KNOW if you ARE in a rokh with rails, I only have to tank you until your cap runs dry. Mine is stable.
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    Teasealot

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Teasealot on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:07 pm

    And who says we'll be firing Kin/Therm? That's expected from a Caldari ship so everyone assumes that's what you'll use. It's quite a surprise when you get blasted with a caldari ship using Minmater Projectile weapons (which DON'T use capacitor) loaded down with EM/Explosive ammo.


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    Sideromelane

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Sideromelane on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:26 pm

    Teasealot wrote:Aren\'t you forgetting the wonderful item called DEFENDER missiles, and what use are missiles against someone whose skills have their railguns outdistance any missile?

    And isn\'t his choice what weapons he uses? What ship he uses? Are you paying his £14.99 a month? I use a Drake so I\'m good with missiles, but I\'m still training my railgun skills in case I need them for a ship that\'s mainly a gun platform. And there are missions out there that a missile boat is useless for. I know, I\'ve done some of them.

    Arg, ninja edits!

    Yeah, it IS entirely up to him what he spends it on, I wasn't telling him to DO anything. I was giving my opinion, which is different.

    As far as missions go, I have not yet found a mission a missile boat cannot do. I actually nerfed my own tank recently, in order to put out a little more damage, to complete them FASTER than I was doing. I can run through Worlds Collide in around 35 - 40 minutes. I dont need to get into optimal, with a TP, transversal and target speed is irrelevent. I can kill Angel Spies with cruise missiles FFS. And my skills are NOT awesome by any means. I DID however start out in Megathrons, which are generally recognized as 'decent' mission boats.
    I hated getting into range. I loathed having to swap ammo for frigates. I detested running out of capacitor!
    The rokh has all those problems in missions, with only the slight benefit of being a shield tanker, so unless it drops to armor, its self repairing.

    But you put any active/boost tank on a rokh, and it will suffer BADLY.

    And while, YES you CAN fit minnie guns on a rokh... why would you? Apart from the once off surprise attack? You are NOT going to hit anything that moves without heavily nerfing your tank. Like, you will HAVE to be loaded with boosters and scripts just to dink my paintjob, and meanwhile, your ship will be falling apart!

    THAT SAID! I am no great expert on PVP. I would be in a HAC or something just to be a git. Maybe even an AF.
    I was looking at it purely in terms of its ability to do Level 4 missions.

    A Drake has the most amazing tank of any shield ship, properly skilled and fitted. Understand however, NO battleship can tank like a Drake. (The Domi comes close though, but thats an armor boat). The drake will do MOST lvl4's, but ONLY uses Heavy Missiles. It takes FOREVER to do missions like that, and some are actually impossible.
    A Raven, or a CNR (Which is what I mission in), uses Cruise or Siege launchers. There is NO comparison between Heavy and Cruise. Other than, a 7 launcher CNR can easily kill ANY NPC battleship in under 6 volleys with the right skills and damage type loaded.
    Guns of ANY sort are reliant on range, falloff, damage types, transversal... Unless you have high speed, short range guns, you are NOT going to get the best out of a gunboat. And sorry to say, very VERY few missions give you the oppertunity to get to a comfortable optimal range.
    A missile boat has the luxury of being able to sit put, tank the room, and pop everything it sees, at any range. A gunboat HAS to move, even is only to kill the frigates buzzing around. Unless you have drones to take them down, you are NOT killing those.

    I can fly everything up to Battleships across Minmatar, Caldari and Gallente. I have flow the tier 2 and 3 battleships from all three races, with optimal mission fits for each. And in terms of actual, practical experience, a bog standard Raven with Cruises is the most efficient mission runner. The Dominix comes close, and may even be better, but I didnt have top drone skills at that time. (Tech 1 only. The undisputed BEST missionrunner is the Torp Golem)

    The big, tier 3 battleships... just are not as good.

    If however, you want to USE one, I'm not going to browbeat you into not using one.

    I'm just saying, I would rather be in a Raven.


    Sorry, that sorta ran on a bit, but I wanted to be clear.
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:04 am

    Okay first of all. The Rokh is probably one of the nastiest battleships in the game. It may not have the DPS of a Raven, but it can hit with blasters at a range that does not require a frying pan and a boarding party. The raven is great in missions and ratting. But the Rokh can get by in missions and is a brilliant PvP platform.

    The Drake is the way the AFK mission. It has the best tank in the game for a ship its size.
    Here is the fit for it.

    High
    7x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
    Mid
    3x Large Shield Extender II
    2x Invulnerability Field II
    1x Photon Scatter Field II
    Low
    4x Shield Power Relay II
    Rig
    3x Core Defence Field Purger I
    That gives you a 985 PDS tank and if need be drop 2x of the shield power relays for balistic control units. The ship will drop to about 30% shields and stop. tank specific and damage specific to your enemies and the missions will go by faster.

    The answere is no, a CNR with 7x Cruise missile launcher II can not kill any NPC in the game. There are some that take small gangs to down. And they are not even in wormhole space.

    I missioned for close to 2 years in an Abaddon. It could track and kill almost anything that came its way. Frigates were eaten by drones if they got too close. Gunboats are a perfectly viable way to mission, you just have to know how to fly them. I could go into detail but that would just take time and effort that i really don't care to give right now. Missile boats do a fine job. But guns can one volly frigates and cruisers at range. And there are plenty of missions that let you get range.

    As a thought. I have encountered both sides of the missile debate. Some say that they are the best thing ever because they don't need any trnsversal or care about speed of the target. But on the other side they have a very very long travel time and often don't do much of anything to small targets or targets that just outrun the missiles. The simple answere is this. Missiles have their place in any engagement of any kind. But they are not the be all end all. So be careful when anyone makes the claim of "This is the best thing ever, i am winzorz!"

    Thats a general statement, not aimed at anyone specific.
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    Sideromelane

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Sideromelane on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:11 am

    Keyou-bi wrote:Okay first of all. The Rokh is probably one of the nastiest battleships in the game. It may not have the DPS of a Raven, but it can hit with blasters at a range that does not require a frying pan and a boarding party. The raven is great in missions and ratting. But the Rokh can get by in missions and is a brilliant PvP platform.

    The Drake is the way the AFK mission. It has the best tank in the game for a ship its size.
    Here is the fit for it.

    High
    7x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
    Mid
    3x Large Shield Extender II
    2x Invulnerability Field II
    1x Photon Scatter Field II
    Low
    4x Shield Power Relay II
    Rig
    3x Core Defence Field Purger I
    That gives you a 985 PDS tank and if need be drop 2x of the shield power relays for balistic control units. The ship will drop to about 30% shields and stop. tank specific and damage specific to your enemies and the missions will go by faster.

    The answere is no, a CNR with 7x Cruise missile launcher II can not kill any NPC in the game. There are some that take small gangs to down. And they are not even in wormhole space.

    I missioned for close to 2 years in an Abaddon. It could track and kill almost anything that came its way. Frigates were eaten by drones if they got too close. Gunboats are a perfectly viable way to mission, you just have to know how to fly them. I could go into detail but that would just take time and effort that i really don't care to give right now. Missile boats do a fine job. But guns can one volly frigates and cruisers at range. And there are plenty of missions that let you get range.

    As a thought. I have encountered both sides of the missile debate. Some say that they are the best thing ever because they don't need any trnsversal or care about speed of the target. But on the other side they have a very very long travel time and often don't do much of anything to small targets or targets that just outrun the missiles. The simple answere is this. Missiles have their place in any engagement of any kind. But they are not the be all end all. So be careful when anyone makes the claim of "This is the best thing ever, i am winzorz!"

    Thats a general statement, not aimed at anyone specific.

    My focus is Lvl4's. While there are NPC's that need gangs n such, those would be the Lvl5 nasties. And A drake can solo tank Core sleepers, for three volleys >.=.>
    In missions, yeah, the rokh 'gets by', but thats a waste of time in my book. Use the right tool for the job, hence my Ratting drake, my Mission CNR, my PVP HAC, my tackling interceptors etc etc. Everything has a thing it does better than most anything else. I would NEVER use a Raven in actual PVP for example. They CAN be effective, but it only 'gets by' in that.

    Actually, really, the only real all rounder is the Dominix... But it looks like a giant flying poo, and DO NOT WANT FLYING POO!
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    Blackwolf

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Blackwolf on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:50 am

    First - Everyone calm please.
    Tease and myself left our first corp due to a total douch telling us how to play and it pisses us off to no end for ANYONE to imply how to play. She wrote that when she was feeling rather crapy and I tried to talk her out of it but failed.
    One of the reasons I enjoy EvE is that you can try out virtualy anything you can imaging, I've got notes on a Laser / Projectile Cormorant both of which work rather well. My current mission craft is either a Cormorant (Level 1's and Salvaging) or a Caracal or a Moa (Level 2). With some specialist craft for certain missions, I use a Stabber for parts 1 & 2 of Recon (God how I hate that mission and look forward to the day I can kill the rats in those parts) and sometimes pull out my Ferox when I'm missioning but otherwise distracted with Tease. I do have a Drake but I prefer the look and feel or a Ferox (and before CCP screwed older graphics card users, our Ferox / Drake teamup was great for mission running).
    It's more satisifing to fit a ship to how you like it as long as it's effective and the problem with using (for example) "Standard" fittings is in Pvp anyone with sense KNOWS that 'perfect' fit and can counter it.

    Since we've started talking fittings, my Drake fit (When I use her)
    (4) Heavy Launchers
    (2) Heavy Assaults
    Drone Link Augmentor
    Medium Capacity Battery
    Medium Shield Extender
    Shield Boost Amplifier
    Shield Recharger
    Damage Control
    Ballistic Control System
    Power Diagnostic System
    Medium Armour Repair
    ECCM

    As for flying ships that look like crap, have you seen the Nightmare ? I don't care how awsome it is as a mission boat, its Fragging UGLY
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    Keyou-bi

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Keyou-bi on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:46 pm

    Okay, Blackwolf, please do not take this as a "FIT LIKE THIS OR YOU ARE DUMB". This is more like friendly advice.

    When you are fitting an ship with weapons you want to keep the weapons in a similar calibur. As in you want them all to be using heavy missiles or large hybrid ammo. This allows you to keep throwing fire on target for longer and not having to worry about the 2 kinds of ammo running out. The key, I have found, for running missions is staying in the mission and tanking everything. That way it does not matter how much DPS you have because the rats will die eventually. When it comes to shield tankers you have to make a hard choice. You need to figure out if you want to active tank or passive tank. Both are remarkably effective if you do it right. For the Drake and any ship that has shield resistance bonuses, you almost always want to passive tank. Because you can get your passive recharge rate up rather high and have the resistances there to make the tank even more awesome. But passive tanking has the issue of preventing the ship from using anything but shield stuff in the mid slots. Active tanking all0ows you to have a nice big tank but very few caldari ships can take the kind of beating on their capacitor that a shield booster can inflict. And putting on anything but Power Diagnostics Systems means that the sheild booster will be less effective (see Capacitor Power Relay). So one has to really work on capacitor skills and the like. The Drake is a great platform an very forgiving for what it does. If you get a chance try my fit out and see how you like it. If you want I can help you with skills needed and a good mission fit got the Rokh.

    And we do not talk about the Nightmare. Awesome name, awesome bonuses, beyond ugly.
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    Teasealot

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    Re: Eve Online

    Post by Teasealot on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:17 pm

    This was the advice we were getting shoved down our throats by the corp we left. Too many people know that most people set up their guns like that, so a mixed range load-out catches out those who deliberately get within minimum targetting range. I caught out someone with that, in my Drake. She's primarily a long range killer, but I have assault launchers just in case someone gets too close.


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