WARNING- God

I believe we are here for entertainment purposes only. I could go more into depth about this but I would just have to think about for a long time, to get my point across to every one. There is no easy answer to my believes but people have been enjoying plays of death, love, lust, etc. And before that people enjoyed fights, and wars. So I see some type of connection there. But I won't believe everything was a fluke, or there being no God for that matter. I'll respect anyones religion or theories or what ever you call it. As long as you respect mine. If you try to say mine are false I'll be open to it. I don't see this lasting long because everyone gets angry when you mention God, that's another reason why I believe there is one, people have been killed for mentioning the word God.

God is always a touchy subject.

Personally, I don't currently believe in God. However, I will not deny the possibility that some form of deity exists; I do not know everything. What it comes down to is that nothing I have experienced yet gives me evidence that God exists in any of the forms people attempt to describe to me. Couple that with the fact that all religions admit that humans are flawed, and then often promote the "flawless" nature of scriptures written by humans who attempt to describe exactly how the world works (and often always has).

I am fine with the thought that everything is just a series of random occurances. I am fine with the thought that I am nothing more than the person sitting here typing this. I know many people don't accept that. This is why the term "faith" has developed the way it has; there is no universal evidence that every person can agree shows that a specific form of God exists. Unfortunately there is no 2 + 2 = God.



P.S. You forgot to include a polytheistic option.

Shachza wrote:God is always a touchy subject.

Personally, I don't currently believe in God. However, I will not deny the possibility that some form of deity exists; I do not know everything. What it comes down to is that nothing I have experienced yet gives me evidence that God exists in any of the forms people attempt to describe to me. Couple that with the fact that all religions admit that humans are flawed, and then often promote the "flawless" nature of scriptures written by humans who attempt to describe exactly how the world works (and often always has).

I am fine with the thought that everything is just a series of random occurances. I am fine with the thought that I am nothing more than the person sitting here typing this. I know many people don't accept that. This is why the term "faith" has developed the way it has; there is no universal evidence that every person can agree shows that a specific form of God exists. Unfortunately there is no 2 + 2 = God.



P.S. You forgot to include a polytheistic option.

Polytheistic I did not know at the time but Im going to google it Right now. You do have a point. And theories have flaws as well. Like the Big Bang Theory, What in the world could have caused the Bang in the first place.

Mecingo wrote:Polytheistic I did not know at the time but Im going to google it Right now. You do have a point. And theories have flaws as well. Like the Big Bang Theory, What in the world could have caused the Bang in the first place.

Polytheism: The belief in multiple Gods. Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, and Hinduism are some of the best-known examples. There are certainly many more.



Pre-Big Bang is one of the few things that I currently accept as possible sources for proof of God. You may be disappointed to know that I consider several other options just as likely.

My apologies for taking so long to reply. I've been busy the last three days. I had time last night, but I didn't want to stay up too late and I wished to do this post justice.

As may have been made obvious, I don't believe in any god. I identify as an atheist. If I allow the assumption that a god exists, I sincerely doubt the selfish notion that the entire universe was created just for us, or that the deity would spend any amount of attention on us.

Historically, the concept of god was created to help explain the various natural occurrences, such as the sun setting, weather, natural disasters, and so on. This is perfectly fine; as a species we weren't developed enough scientifically to understand these things. We certainly are now. We don't have many things left to explain, and even fewer things that we don't have at least a head start in understanding. Now the concept of god and religion are crutches, old traditions we blindly hold on to simply because they are traditions.

For example, the Big Bang theory which you brought up. You're right, we have absolutely no idea what came before the Big Bang, if anything. We're working on it. The common assertion is that since we don't know what came before the Big Bang, that either invalidates the theory or means that God Did It (tm). Which is interesting to me. People don't seem to have a problem with the idea that nothing came before God, that God has simply always been there, but they have a problem with the idea that nothing came before the Big Bang. (Note: I'm not saying that is the case. It may be the case) So I put the question to you: what came before god?

Most god debates I've come across on the internet focus on the various forms of the Christian god, and I want to make it clear that I'm not just railing on that belief. I hold all major religions to be silly. (I have less issue with spiritualism and basically those religions without a deity attached; I don't believe in any of them, but I take less issue with them) It is in part that the fact that there are so many religions that contributes to my not believing in any god. Please, I would love to hear any reason that your religion (be it Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islamic, etc) is correct against all others that cannot be used in a slightly changed form to also invalidate your religion. For example, the Bible says so is not valid, since another can say the Torah says so, or the Koran says so.

I'll end the post here and address more concerns later. I can easily keep going now, but I don't wish to rant and give you all a Wall Of Text to read.

If you look closely at the Old Testaments in the holy books of Christianity, Islamism, Judaism and couple of others whose names escape me at the moment are almost identical. Which hints to me, at least, that the mainstream major religions are based from an older lost religion and the religious texts up to a point (the New Testaments) have simply been copied from the original text and the names and placenames have been altered to give credence to the religion's country of birth as being "The Holy Country God loves."

Lord Grey II wrote:My apologies for taking so long to reply. I've been busy the last three days. I had time last night, but I didn't want to stay up too late and I wished to do this post justice.

As may have been made obvious, I don't believe in any god. I identify as an atheist. If I allow the assumption that a god exists, I sincerely doubt the selfish notion that the entire universe was created just for us, or that the deity would spend any amount of attention on us.

Historically, the concept of god was created to help explain the various natural occurrences, such as the sun setting, weather, natural disasters, and so on. This is perfectly fine; as a species we weren't developed enough scientifically to understand these things. We certainly are now. We don't have many things left to explain, and even fewer things that we don't have at least a head start in understanding. Now the concept of god and religion are crutches, old traditions we blindly hold on to simply because they are traditions.

For example, the Big Bang theory which you brought up. You're right, we have absolutely no idea what came before the Big Bang, if anything. We're working on it. The common assertion is that since we don't know what came before the Big Bang, that either invalidates the theory or means that God Did It (tm). Which is interesting to me. People don't seem to have a problem with the idea that nothing came before God, that God has simply always been there, but they have a problem with the idea that nothing came before the Big Bang. (Note: I'm not saying that is the case. It may be the case) So I put the question to you: what came before god?

Most god debates I've come across on the internet focus on the various forms of the Christian god, and I want to make it clear that I'm not just railing on that belief. I hold all major religions to be silly. (I have less issue with spiritualism and basically those religions without a deity attached; I don't believe in any of them, but I take less issue with them) It is in part that the fact that there are so many religions that contributes to my not believing in any god. Please, I would love to hear any reason that your religion (be it Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islamic, etc) is correct against all others that cannot be used in a slightly changed form to also invalidate your religion. For example, the Bible says so is not valid, since another can say the Torah says so, or the Koran says so.

I'll end the post here and address more concerns later. I can easily keep going now, but I don't wish to rant and give you all a Wall Of Text to read.

Grey, You support your view. Even thoe there is no proof for or against the existence of God, I would rather beleive there is one. Even if he/she might be evil.

Mecingo wrote:Grey, You support your view. Even thoe there is no proof for or against the existence of God, I would rather beleive there is one. Even if he/she might be evil.

*twitches*

WHAT.

That was quite possibly the worst possible response ever.

I don't have a problem with people believing in a god. What I do have a problem with is people unthinkingly unquestioningly desperately holding onto beliefs. With particular emphasis on unquestioningly! Everyone, and I include myself in this, should be on the constant lookout for flaws in their beliefs! I presented you with flaws and problems, your reaction should be to try and solve those problems, not shrug your shoulders and go "Well I believe anyways"!

*calms himself*

Of course, you may have done so out in real life, but your post makes it look like you are blindly following your beliefs for no reason. Think, don't accept. I'm not trying to convince you that god doesn't exist, I just want rationality in your arguments.

I'm goin' to post the beliefs of some of my friends. These are not my personal views, but of people I know.

"God exists, he or she did not create the Universe as he or she is the Universe, we live within him/her as a part of the cosmic organism called God. There's proof of other Universes, so is God the Universe one of a cosmically huge race of organisms?
She also has the view that humanity was originally conceived as an anti-body (it explains the aggressive response to anythin' "not right") but due to cultural and social trends, is mutatin' into a virus or worse, a cancer.
Based off mah sensible scientific God friend's belief. If the Big Bang was the creation of the universe, does that mean that the cells of two adult universes merged, creatin' a baby universe?"
It strangely explains why Universes grow up, and then wither.

Another friend's view is God does exist, he/she is not omnipotent, just a scientist who has let one of his experiments run rampant, and hasn't gotten around to flushin' or burnin' it.

Yet another friend's view: If you read the old testaments, you see the truth of God, he/she is not a (forgive the language) tree-humpin' all lovin' hippy, but the pi$$ed off cop whose sundays get messed up by all these idiots havin' communal and depressin' love-ins, and he's/she's just becomed jaded and uncarin' towards his/her children on Earth.

Lord Grey II wrote:

Mecingo wrote:Grey, You support your view. Even thoe there is no proof for or against the existence of God, I would rather beleive there is one. Even if he/she might be evil.

*twitches*

WHAT.

That was quite possibly the worst possible response ever.

I don't have a problem with people believing in a god. What I do have a problem with is people unthinkingly unquestioningly desperately holding onto beliefs. With particular emphasis on unquestioningly! Everyone, and I include myself in this, should be on the constant lookout for flaws in their beliefs! I presented you with flaws and problems, your reaction should be to try and solve those problems, not shrug your shoulders and go "Well I believe anyways"!



*calms himself*

Of course, you may have done so out in real life, but your post makes it look like you are blindly following your beliefs for no reason. Think, don't accept. I'm not trying to convince you that god doesn't exist, I just want rationality in your arguments.

Its more of having morals and living a life style not for myself. When I did live for my self I hurt people if they got in my way. I treated everyone as a lower lifeform. I do not want to live the life MOST ATHEISTS DO saying I will live life to the fullest and do what ever the hell I want. NO I set limits for myself it has made me a better person, I do feel warm and fuzzy inside when putting someone else before myself. It feels great.
Am not saying all atheists are like this but when you believe there is no purpose "That were here by luck" to life your most likely going become corrupt and feel that since you won't go on to a eternal after life you should do what ever the hell you want. When I lived that lifestyle I felt empty with no purpose. But now I feel like there is more to reality then what we can see, hear, and touch. The purpose to reality itself, I don't know. I do know the current life style I live is based on good morals from my religion. Its a thing called faith, I never ask for my God to reply to me. I feel I have to answer and obey him. Yes Im A Christian, And I do live in sin. Us Christians aren't perfect. I actually never said the sinner's prayer and been baptized yet for that matter. But I have been saved many times from death. I never seen or heard God. But I have seen Hell, and I won't get into that. (and I mean I won't get into that)

Values- (My Father Put On My Life)
Do What The Word Says Is Right To Do.
Help Anyone In Need.
Only Kill When Serving In A War.
Tell Everyone about the Word, At least once, and they can chose for them selfs.
(Never been good at that one, but the internet has helped)
If someone Try's to fight you avoid it if possible, but if they attack, defend your self.
Only kill a animal if you intend to eat it.
Obey the 10 commandments. (Vall shall not murder, is no the same as killing someone during war. Murder is out of hate, War is of action)
Anyone can be saved, even Muslims.
Do not kill the Unborn, Abortion is worse than murder, Instead give birth to the child. And give it to a couple that can't reproduce, there are many other options as well.
If the unborn is doomed to die, don't kill the unborn infant. Give it a chance to out wit death.
Homosexuals are mislead, they can be saved.
Study the word, believe all the word, and protect the word.

Sorry I had a weak response at first. I never been good at telling people about my religion anyway. I don't have proof for you but I have proof for myself.
And if Im lying I shall be Damned.

BTW- The only thing I lied about on the web is my height. And age for certain perks but not anymore.

Grey your free too bash me if you want, We live in a free country after all.

Teasealot wrote:
Yet another friend's view: If you read the old testaments, you see the truth of God, he/she is not a (forgive the language) tree-humpin' all lovin' hippy, but the pi$$ed off cop whose sundays get messed up by all these idiots havin' communal and depressin' love-ins, and he's/she's just becomed jaded and uncarin' towards his/her children on Earth.

My God is violent, and still is. Ex 1948 Palestine War, My God Had His Chosen People Kill Off Alot Of Palestines. Israel is currently fighting off Terrorists. (Ones who seek revenge for there fellow dead Palestines) The Crusades I May Add. All War Thoe.

The Jaded part is kinda off, He doesn't have to do that to make himself fell good he's God after all.

He is not really a he, a sexless gender.

He isn't really a he, doesn't have a gender.

I didn't accuse you of lying at all. I accused you of having a weak argument. Guilty conscience?

Yes, in general, atheists believe that we should do whatever we like in the only world that exists. That doesn't mean we don't have morals, as you seem to be implying. Are you saying that without religion, we'd all devolve into selfish jerks? Man, I'm glad I'm not studying psychology, or I might point out that the human species is a communal species, functioning best with other people as a society, and frequently helps others to no benefit to themselves (altruism) all without the help of your god.

Man, I'm so glad psychology isn't my major, otherwise I might be sickened by your debasing of social groups outside of your own simply because they're different, accusing them of being lesser morally to make you feel better about your own choices in life.

Mecingo wrote:Anyone can be saved, even Muslims.

Man, I wonder if all this hatred for muslims has anything to do with a war that's going on right now? Cuz you know, before around the year 2000, I seem to remember this phrase, except using the word Jews instead...

Homosexuals are mislead, they can be saved.

I love all the religious attacks in this post. Of course god hates fags, it says so in the Bible, which couldn't be misinterpreted at all (just an illustrative example folks)

Study the word, believe all the word, and protect the word.

I see that it doesn't say things like "Question the word" or "Think for yourself".

Now, could you address my debate points instead of spouting religious babble at me?

Mecingo wrote:I'll respect anyones religion or theories or what ever you call it. As long as you respect mine. If you try to say mine are false I'll be open to it.

Mecingo, you are being the aggressive one, and you goin' back on your word that you would respect others religion, theories and beliefs.
Grey did not attack your belief, he merely told you that he is an athetist and disagrees with your view. Nothin' more.

You're startin' to rant like those "Christians" I used to live near. You know them, they're called the IRA and UFF. And you are also comin' across as one of those "Muslim Extremists." Islam is not an evil religion, Islam is actually a peaceful religion that certain groups have corrupted to give them the "right" to murder "unbelievers".

Stop this thread now, or I will lock it as it just creatin' ill feelin's between members, and a lot of what you said can be called trollin'.

I do feel warm and fuzzy inside when putting someone else before myself. It feels great.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
-Lao Tzu

I find religion to be flawed because most of them ask for you to put other before yourself which I never understood. It is good to help others from time to time, but if those people can't help themselves then do they deserved to be helped at all? I find that the best method is to teach people life lessons and only assist if they truly can't understand or do what is needed to survive.

I look at organized religion more as a set of analogies for life lessons that need to be taught. If there is a god he's given humanity and all life free will and with that we have the choice of believing in him or not. Nothing bad will come to those that don't agree with organized religion. Really atheists aren't evil sinners, they just choose to acknowledge free will and not believe in a god. If anything they have a stronger connection to religion than those that blindly follow it, which is a bit ironic.

Lord Grey II wrote:
That was quite possibly the worst possible response ever.

I don't have a problem with people believing in a god. What I do have a problem with is people unthinkingly unquestioningly desperately holding onto beliefs. With particular emphasis on unquestioningly! Everyone, and I include myself in this, should be on the constant lookout for flaws in their beliefs! I presented you with flaws and problems, your reaction should be to try and solve those problems, not shrug your shoulders and go "Well I believe anyways"!

*calms himself*

Of course, you may have done so out in real life, but your post makes it look like you are blindly following your beliefs for no reason. Think, don't accept. I'm not trying to convince you that god doesn't exist, I just want rationality in your arguments.

Don't get too worked up, you look like you're about to run headfirst into the wall that most people do when coming from opposite ends of this argument. Namely that the perfect term in this case is faith. Mecingo has faith that God exists, and at the risk of being flamebait, I would suggest that you have faith that God doesn't. Since I believe both of you are coming from platforms derived from incomplete evidence I doubt either of you will convince the other of joining your viewpoint. Don't fall prey to the same thing that you hate in those who blindly follow religion; an unquestioning belief that you are right and the other is wrong.

Up until now I see no problem with either series of posts. He has explained his belief that God exists, you have explained yours that God doesn't.

Mecingo wrote:Its more of having morals and living a life style not for myself. When I did live for my self I hurt people if they got in my way. I treated everyone as a lower lifeform. I do not want to live the life MOST ATHEISTS DO saying I will live life to the fullest and do what ever the hell I want. NO I set limits for myself it has made me a better person, I do feel warm and fuzzy inside when putting someone else before myself. It feels great.
Am not saying all atheists are like this but when you believe there is no purpose "That were here by luck" to life your most likely going become corrupt and feel that since you won't go on to a eternal after life you should do what ever the hell you want. When I lived that lifestyle I felt empty with no purpose. But now I feel like there is more to reality then what we can see, hear, and touch. The purpose to reality itself, I don't know. I do know the current life style I live is based on good morals from my religion. Its a thing called faith, I never ask for my God to reply to me. I feel I have to answer and obey him. Yes Im A Christian, And I do live in sin. Us Christians aren't perfect. I actually never said the sinner's prayer and been baptized yet for that matter. But I have been saved many times from death. I never seen or heard God. But I have seen Hell, and I won't get into that. (and I mean I won't get into that)

*Sigh*

Nothing bugs me more than: "No Jesus, No peace. Know Jesus, Know peace." Your response is one reason I think that every religion is at least partially wrong (that and pretty much none of the religions practiced today have been around forever), and it dismays me to see you say it. I choose to be as good a person as I feel I reasonably can be, and I don't need religion to make me so. It comes down to choice and it upsets me that people assume that to choose a certain way of life, they must also embrace specific unrelated thought processes.

Strangely enough I take a big queue from Chris Rock's character in Dogma (Rufus, the 13th apostle) who explains that the rituals, acoutrements, and bureaucracy that accompany religion aren't the important parts; it's the idea behind it. There aren't enough people who can grasp what I feel is a very important distinction.

Thank you Shachza for your well thought out points and views.

Shachza wrote:
Strangely enough I take a big queue from Chris Rock's character in Dogma (Rufus, the 13th apostle) who explains that the rituals, acoutrements, and bureaucracy that accompany religion aren't the important parts; it's the idea behind it. There aren't enough people who can grasp what I feel is a very important distinction.

Damn that's what I was trying to get at and I completely forgot about Dogma. Nutshell for the win.

Lord Grey II wrote:I didn't accuse you of lying at all. I accused you of having a weak argument. Guilty conscience?

Yes, in general, atheists believe that we should do whatever we like in the only world that exists. That doesn't mean we don't have morals, as you seem to be implying. Are you saying that without religion, we'd all devolve into selfish jerks? Man, I'm glad I'm not studying psychology, or I might point out that the human species is a communal species, functioning best with other people as a society, and frequently helps others to no benefit to themselves (altruism) all without the help of your god.

Man, I'm so glad psychology isn't my major, otherwise I might be sickened by your debasing of social groups outside of your own simply because they're different, accusing them of being lesser morally to make you feel better about your own choices in life.

Mecingo wrote:Anyone can be saved, even Muslims.

Man, I wonder if all this hatred for muslims has anything to do with a war that's going on right now? Cuz you know, before around the year 2000, I seem to remember this phrase, except using the word Jews instead...

Homosexuals are mislead, they can be saved.

I love all the religious attacks in this post. Of course god hates fags, it says so in the Bible, which couldn't be misinterpreted at all (just an illustrative example folks)

Study the word, believe all the word, and protect the word.

I see that it doesn't say things like "Question the word" or "Think for yourself".

Now, could you address my debate points instead of spouting religious babble at me?

1. The Crusades are the reason Muslims hate us. The way my ancestors treated them during the Crusades was "grim". There was many other ways they could of ran them out of the Holy land, without killing them. But that's all they knew of at the time. Muslims were peaceful people intill christians made a mistake, by killing legions of them. They can be saved.
(Also some are curious about chritsianty in there own countries "ex Yeme, Iraq, Iran, Etc.) But they don't have freedom of religion. And mentioning "Jesus, Christianty, Etc" is a death sentence in south east asia "Iraq, Yemen, Ect"
Al-Qaeda doesn't let anyone Muslim convert to Christainity. Most women in the religion want to convert because they don't have much rights within it.

2. When it said in the Bible "They be stoned" it was the HUMAN VIEW on homosexuals. Im currently trying to convert Derek but he is to prideful.
Listen homosexuality studies have no proof that Homosexuality is in the Genes, or that your born that way.
I could get a story from a ex homosexual, now Christian. Grey I was never gay so I can't explain this. It is something I don't want to think about to much, it's just another thing that gives me nightmares.
BTW - The Story Thing If You Ask Might Take A Few Days, If You Want One. I don't attend my church every sunday, or have any of their FBs for that matter.

3. This mostly deals with creation you may ask, I don't know every thing. But you can ask questions about what certain things mean. That is what a preacher is for, or the modern plain english version of the Bible.
Creation thoe Im not trying to avoid is hard to explain when you were not there.
And how God been around forever is not even possible to explain. But are human brains can't find the answer, I don't think about that at all really intill now.
(Ex a father holds the truth from his son, to protect and not corrupt him, the father lets him know when he is ready)
(Tr God holds this from his children, because there not perfect yet, when they come to be with him he shall reveal the truth)

4. I have things wrong with myself Grey.
1# Disrespect towards my fellow youth.
2# Hate has been trying to take over my life for yrs. Still fighting it.
3# I don't know all of the bible, maybe If a did I would hear from God.
4# I have a anger disorder Bipolar, I can be sad one minute and blow up In rage from the smallest problem.
5# I haven't asked for redemtion, my stupid pride.
6# Sudden burst of lustful desire, I never got checked to see if this is a disorder or just my hormones when Im not using them to run. I stop myself usually a goose egg results on my fore head.
7# Pride itself
Christians aren't perfect, no human is.

5. I did stereotype athiests, but I ask you this with no god. And the universe just appeared what is anyones purpose? Whats your purpose? Is it just to live and one day rot in the ground? Or is it something else? Is it a fluke?

(The rot in the ground is morbid but I could have said it worse)
(Spelling is bad because I just don't care at the moment, Im studing for a civics exam)
(Do see this being locked in the future)

If you want to be a Athiest, thats your choice. God gave us a freewill.

Mecingo wrote: I did stereotype athiests, but I ask you this with no god. And the universe just appeared what is anyones purpose? Whats your purpose? Is it just to live and one day rot in the ground? Or is it something else? Is it a fluke?

(The rot in the ground is morbid but I could have said it worse)
(Spelling is bad because I just don't care at the moment, Im studing for a civics exam)
(Do see this being locked in the future)

If you want to be a Athiest, thats your choice. God gave us a freewill.

I'm skipping the babble this time.

You've hit it on the head. There's no purpose whatsoever, for anyone. At the same time, that means you can make life mean for yourself whatever you want it to. I don't need a religion to tell me what I want to do with my life, nor do I need it to tell me what is meaningful to me. Yes, everything is a fluke. An incredibly amazing, lucky, beautiful fluke.

And as an aside, you don't have bipolar, that's not how it works, at all. Based on your age, I'd bet it's just hormones.

Lord Grey II wrote:

Mecingo wrote: I did stereotype athiests, but I ask you this with no god. And the universe just appeared what is anyones purpose? Whats your purpose? Is it just to live and one day rot in the ground? Or is it something else? Is it a fluke?

(The rot in the ground is morbid but I could have said it worse)
(Spelling is bad because I just don't care at the moment, Im studing for a civics exam)
(Do see this being locked in the future)

If you want to be a Athiest, thats your choice. God gave us a freewill.

I'm skipping the babble this time.

You've hit it on the head. There's no purpose whatsoever, for anyone. At the same time, that means you can make life mean for yourself whatever you want it to. I don't need a religion to tell me what I want to do with my life, nor do I need it to tell me what is meaningful to me. Yes, everything is a fluke. An incredibly amazing, lucky, beautiful fluke.

And as an aside, you don't have bipolar, that's not how it works, at all. Based on your age, I'd bet it's just hormones.

Hormones most likely yes, I have been misdianosed like 60% of my youth.