Let's talk about beliefs.

An interesting thing I discovered recently, which has strengthened my belief in the Hindu religion and the Buddha, is that, in Hindu belief, the Buddha is the ninth incarnation of the Lord Vishnu himself. I think that is fascinating. I like how the Hindu and Buddhist religion goes hand-in-hand like that. The Buddha is not worshiped directly, and he did not demand worship anyway, but his teachings are accepted.

I'm an atheist to the scorn of most of the southern baptists that surround me. They try to convert me on a regular basis which has it's unforeseen benefits, such as an entire arsenal of rebuttals and the occasional amusement of asking them hard questions. Politically I'm a staunch libertarian which irritates both my conservative parents and my liberal friends. Remarkably though it's quite easy to find common ground with them. I enjoy a good debate about Christianity and politics, keeps my wits sharp and I almost always learn something. As for "beliefs" well, I'm into conspiracy theories, mainly 9/11.

TeenageAngst wrote:I'm an atheist to the scorn of most of the southern baptists that surround me. They try to convert me on a regular basis which has it's unforeseen benefits, such as an entire arsenal of rebuttals and the occasional amusement of asking them hard questions. Politically I'm a staunch libertarian which irritates both my conservative parents and my liberal friends. Remarkably though it's quite easy to find common ground with them. I enjoy a good debate about Christianity and politics, keeps my wits sharp and I almost always learn something. As for "beliefs" well, I'm into conspiracy theories, mainly 9/11.

I am with you on the conspiracy theroies.

I have a book that has some info about that, but it is unconfirmed, can't remember the name right now.

I have hours of video and numerous web pages, it's almost tin foil hat.

I belive.... something... sorry I'm really tired and want to say something intelligent and thought out... but this is the best I can manage.

Scientific theory has been subverted for individual gain too before we get a "religion is the root of all human conflict" bent.

It's my belief that any action in our universe, either by the whim of man or nature or some deity must conform to physical laws which cannot be broken. If there is any form or higher being(s) then they, in so much as their actions protrude into this universe, must also obey these laws. If something happens and it does not conform to our understanding of the universe then either our understanding is incorrect or we have misinterpreted the happening.

I also believe that with the vast complexity of the universe around us and the relative simplicity of our brains we will never understand it all. After all, we have only relatively recently started using our brains to think about these things, up till now it’s just been thinking about eating and breeding.

As for the question of “is there a god” well, I don’t know. My understanding of the universe is not advanced enough to pick out something as the work of a higher power from any number of other things I don’t understand.

But I think so.

Scientific theory has been subverted for individual gain too before we get a "religion is the root of all human conflict" bent.

Indeed it has. There have been several groups in the past that have tried to use "scientific" theory to "prove" that black people are less intelligent beings (back during the civil rights movement, this of course, was bullsh*t) there are groups today that are trying to use "scientific" theory to "prove" that homosexuals are retarded or sub-human. These theories are also bs. But are great examples of how science has been subverted.

Pandora wrote:Indeed it has. There have been several groups in the past that have tried to use "scientific" theory to "prove" that black people are less intelligent beings (back during the civil rights movement, this of course, was bullsh*t) there are groups today that are trying to use "scientific" theory to "prove" that homosexuals are retarded or sub-human. These theories are also bs. But are great examples of how science has been subverted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap_in_the_United_States

And one could argue that science with an ulterior motive is not true science. Similar to the Nazis fake eugenics programs.

TeenageAngst wrote:

Pandora wrote:Indeed it has. There have been several groups in the past that have tried to use "scientific" theory to "prove" that black people are less intelligent beings (back during the civil rights movement, this of course, was bullsh*t) there are groups today that are trying to use "scientific" theory to "prove" that homosexuals are retarded or sub-human. These theories are also bs. But are great examples of how science has been subverted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap_in_the_United_States

And one could argue that science with an ulterior motive is not true science. Similar to the Nazis fake eugenics programs.

I never trust wikipedia. Just so you know...

That's why I put quotations around the word "scientific," because science used with an ulterior motive, or subverted for personal gain isn't actually scientific.

Information can be skewed to suit the point the person is making, that's why we have free will
We choose what to beilve, it's just a shame that most people are like sheep.

Blackwolf wrote:We choose what to believe, it's just a shame that most people are like sheep.

Baaaaaa.

It is a shame. But that was part of the point behind the His Dark Materials book trilogy. There were way too many people blindly following a political/religious super power and it was ruining their ability to think for themselves.

I'm Catholic, though I'm being pulled toward Unitarian. Whatever others believe or don't is up to them, I've never forced my beliefs on others. However, I generally expect the same courtesy.

The funny thing is, the most publicly devout people are the ones who display the least faith, in my experience. They don't trust God's judgment, and try to force their own on others. I'm a Fatalist by default, I believe what happens is what is meant to happen. I see no value in trying to get someone to change who they are, since, for all I know, thats what they're *supposed* to be. I may not agree, but I don't speak for God.

Coydog wrote:I'm Catholic, though I'm being pulled toward Unitarian. Whatever others believe or don't is up to them, I've never forced my beliefs on others. However, I generally expect the same courtesy.

The funny thing is, the most publicly devout people are the ones who display the least faith, in my experience. They don't trust God's judgment, and try to force their own on others. I'm a Fatalist by default, I believe what happens is what is meant to happen. I see no value in trying to get someone to change who they are, since, for all I know, thats what they're *supposed* to be. I may not agree, but I don't speak for God.

Nice, I agree with you on not forcing beliefs onto others...

Well, good. I don't expect anyone to agree with everything I feel or say. Of course, some would say the statement makes me less faithful. I'm less of a Christian because I allow others to decide for themselves, but being faithful and being Christian aren't one and the same.

I don't believe in fate because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life and my own choices.

I don't like Fate either, any way he cheats at cards...

Pandora wrote:I don't believe in fate because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life and my own choices.

Matrix!

Lord Grey II wrote:

Pandora wrote:I don't believe in fate because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life and my own choices.

Matrix!

Yeah, but I agree with it. I really don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own destiny. I dislike the idea that some intangible God figure has everything in my life mapped out from the start and I have truly no say in the matter. If that were the case, we really wouldn't actually have any free will at all. Not to mention that gives rise to the question, if God pre-determines our lives, does he pre-destine people to suffer in Hell? (Of course that's God in the Christian sense of the word, but you get my meaning anyway.) If everything is pre-determined, then if someone is meant to be president one day, that will happen no matter what. They could murder someone and still be president because they were pre-destined to it. They were pre-destined to murder someone for that matter.

The idea of a completely mapped-out life is something that I can't get behind.

The idea that a god could sit back and watch, or worse, cause all the problems on earth knowing the entirety of their destiny is far more depressing than the idea that life is simply planned out.

Well, there needs to be problems in the world. As bad as that may sound, we need to suffer in order to appreciate the good parts of life. Without suffering, there can be no happiness because we wouldn't know the difference. If we were happy all the time, that wouldn't be happiness, that would just be the norm. Happiness may be impermanent, but so is suffering. When you are suffering, you can take hope in the knowledge that it won't last forever, and when it does end, you can appreciate the good times all the more.

Or you can become an hero. Personally I always found that argument a bit of a cop out in the face of the legions of innocents that suffer and die with no chance of a better life.

It's not a cop out, and I take offense to that. It's a Buddhist and a Hindu teaching. Of which I am. Yeah, there are lots of innocents who suffer, but do you honestly believe that none of them EVER has a SINGLE moment of happiness in their life? At all? Period? Never?

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that.

And I take offense to the idea that starving children need to suffer to enjoy what few good times they have in their relatively short lives. Yes, there are moments when they are happy, but that doesn't mean their suffering is justified.

Also, whether or not you count aborted babies in this is entirely at your discretion.

TeenageAngst wrote:And I take offense to the idea that starving children need to suffer to enjoy what few good times they have in their relatively short lives. Yes, there are moments when they are happy, but that doesn't mean their suffering is justified.

Also, whether or not you count aborted babies in this is entirely at your discretion.

I didn't say anything about abortion dude...

And I'm fine if you disagree with me, and I'm fine if you believe something different than me, that's alright. Not everyone believes the same thing. That's just respectful.

But do NOT tell me that my belief is an unjustified cop out. That is NOT respectful at all.

And I'd have you know that there are plenty of people of many religions who don't just sit on their asses and say "suffering is a part of life." There are lots that actually go to those areas of suffering and try to help. I'd like to ad that another of Buddha's teaching is "I do not believe in the fate of the man who acts, I believe in the fate of the man who does nothing." Meaning, action is more important than inaction. It is worse to see something going on and do nothing about it than to do something and have an undesired result. The fate that befalls the man that does nothing is his own fault.